EXOS LT - Too small?

Complete water cooling systems (for example: Exos-2.5, PC5-1336, etc.)...
Ace0751
Fire Hydrant Gunner
Fire Hydrant Gunner
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby Ace0751 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:40 pm

That's a good choice plus you don't need to worry about upgrading for a long time. My opinion though is I would pick up a 450s and a 2x120rad just for better flow and cooling cause by the time it gets to the GPUs the flow will slow down and having that extra 450 and rad in their will guarantee the flow will remain steady and the temp for all the components to remain cool. But that's just my opinion it's up to you if you want to add the extra flow.
GIGABYTE X58-UD7 Mobo Rev. 2
Intel i7 950 3.25Ghz
Corsair DOMINATOR GT 12GB 2000mhz DDR3
MSI Radeon 290X
Danger Den Customized Case

simfreak
Water Pistol Grunt
Water Pistol Grunt
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby simfreak » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:35 pm

What's funny is that I got the unit today and it's bigger than my window :p
Guess I should have measured better.
I will update the performance on Sunday for all the people that are interested.

Izerous
Rain Maker
Rain Maker
Posts: 1185
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:34 am
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby Izerous » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:21 pm

If you own and not just rent you can probably build a shelf right in-front of the window to support the unit.
Corsair 800D
2xPMP-450S > Amd FX8370 > Asus CH4-EX > AMD 6990 > AMD 6990 > 2x1080 rads > return
32GB Ram

simfreak
Water Pistol Grunt
Water Pistol Grunt
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby simfreak » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:47 pm

Well, its not so much that it doenst fit on the ledge, more of a the exhaust area is bigger than the window opens.
so far the unit has been performing well. I played shougun last night for about a hour and the temps were pretty steady.
Then sometime today i thought i would just leave the computer on for a while and the temps started to go up and up while idleing. At first i didnt know what to think; I finally pulled the plug when the water temp was about 108F and the cpu's were at about 130f. I tried increaing the pump and the fans and that only dropped the temp 2F...
I was getting upset and decided to just clean the room up; then i went to go plug a cable in the back and saw that when i put the computer in the cubby i pinched the hose coming out of the back of the unit :( Fixed that, now got done playing for over 3 hours and the water temp is at 88F and the cput at 95F; The room is about 74F. Not to bad for 3 hours of gaming with 100% GPU/cpu. Oh did i mention the pump is only set to 50% and the fans 20%.
Needless to say, it was a massive improvment.
Also, i didnt have to flip the computer over to get the air out of the hoses. Just ran the until on full speed and kept addding water. Over all the setup took about 4 bottles of the koolance coolant. So thats a lot of liquid to move around.

I'll try to post some images soon.

Ace0751
Fire Hydrant Gunner
Fire Hydrant Gunner
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby Ace0751 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:45 am

Its nice having a new system and you see the temp dramatically come down. I think I have a bad CPU cause mine idles on a warm day to 40c which is 102F and goes up to 50c which is 123F under load. Need to upgrade to the 2011 socket lol but that will be the next winter project. Now do you have it all in one loop? Just by what you are saying I think that would be a yes, now if you added another radiator and pump I bet those temps would come down a little more.
GIGABYTE X58-UD7 Mobo Rev. 2
Intel i7 950 3.25Ghz
Corsair DOMINATOR GT 12GB 2000mhz DDR3
MSI Radeon 290X
Danger Den Customized Case

simfreak
Water Pistol Grunt
Water Pistol Grunt
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby simfreak » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:45 am

actually with how big the loop is, i dont think another radiator would do much; Though i thought maybe of replacing the runs from the cooler to the system with copper pipe; I just need to find the right fittings to go from vynal to copper. This way the external loop itself acts as a raidiator; Also less chance of a tube becoming compressed as i experianced on saturday.
Also i think the pump is more than enough, after all, the external tubing was kinked to the point where i bet it was only operating at about 10% of flow and it still was keeping up pretty well.
some pics:
Image
Image
Image
Image

Ace0751
Fire Hydrant Gunner
Fire Hydrant Gunner
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby Ace0751 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:23 am

That is a very long loop, if you somehow cut the tubing down those temps would go down a little more the less tubing the more the heat will dispense out. What would be neat is putting that system on the right side next to the PC and run the tubing under your desk. Make a small diagram and go from there and like I said earlier add another 450s pump and a 2x120 radiator and you will have a steady temp and flow and the temp will go down even more. So overall you will use less tubing and nice looking loop, and a steady temp and flow, that will equal a pretty badass setup.
GIGABYTE X58-UD7 Mobo Rev. 2
Intel i7 950 3.25Ghz
Corsair DOMINATOR GT 12GB 2000mhz DDR3
MSI Radeon 290X
Danger Den Customized Case

simfreak
Water Pistol Grunt
Water Pistol Grunt
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:10 pm

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby simfreak » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:30 pm

I have to disagree with your loop assesment. The longer the loop the more the heat loss through convection. If your water temp > then room temp; then you will always have convection leakage through the lines; This is the point of radiators, to add loop lenghth (and surface area) for convection, if you add air flow, then your heat loss increases. Now if the opposite is true and your water temp is < room temp, then yes, having a shorter loop would help because you have less absorbsion of the environmental heat into the tubing but for watercooling, the goal should be that water temp = room temp to prevent condensation.
Now vynal is a pretty bad conductor of heat; and probably acts as a insulator, but i can tell you that when temps rise, the vynal will feel warm to the touch; That 'warmth' is transfering energy out to the environment and so losing energy. If i were to use copper, which is an excellent source of heat transfer, then the loop itself would act as a radiator. If the room is colder then the water, heat will be lossed to the air around it. If the room is warmer, then heat will be gained.
To add to this, the longer the loop, the more liquid there is to heat up. The more liquid there is to heat up, the more energy it takes. Try boiling 1 gal of water vs 5, the 5 takes many times longer. The same can be said for water cooling, It will take longer to raise the temp of 3000ml of liquid then it will 750ml.
Also, there are some people that say that if water flow is too high, it hurts temp. This is because there isnt enough time for the energy to be transfered from the copper block to the water, this is why if you look at the cooling blocks inside, they have fins, the idea is to cause turbulance and slow the water down for convection to take place (also to cause surface area for heat transfer to take place. Water cooling isnt like air cooling where you are trying to blow the heat off of a conductor; In this case you are absorbing it. Now once it hits the radiator, then you are basically doing air cooling where you are trying to blow the heat off of the fins, but in the block you are trying to absorb it. As an example, if you power wash something you can actual raise the temperature of the object from friction of the water hitting the surface at high speeds (this is just an example and no where near what happens in these systems).
The 450s pump that comes with this is 19ft of head preasure. Meaning that it should be capable of pushing water streight up 19ft. Since this is a balanced system where distance traveled up is = distance traveled down, then there is very little lossed in the form of hear preasure because gravity is helping. The only place where you lose head preasure is when it hits the cooling blocks because it goes from 1/2" to 1/4" inside the block and if there are any 90's which i have 2 of for quick connects. For the 90's you lose about 1ft head of preasure per 90. The change in preasure by going though the block, i dont know what that does; But i imagin i am only losing about 5ft/h of preasure with this loop since the pump is a 1/2" pump; As noted before; this was powerful enough to push all the air out of my system and lines with out moving the computer around or tapping the lines. I just stood on a chair and kept pouring liquid in until it almost over flowed.
The other system i had was smaller, 10mm vs 13mm. So there was a lot of head preasure lost there because its trying to push more water in the tubing then what is the natural output of the pump. So it makes sense that i had such a hard time burping the system (and by hard i mean it took hours of moving things around).

I guess the end result of this is that its running really well; Im going to take it to the next level and add in some overclocking to see if that does anything to temps. But my guess is that this could probably cool 2 setups like mine with out issues (maybe not 2 loop lenghts, but if i had 2 computers side by side); Afterall, this thing should be doing over 2000w of heat disapation at the cuurent 50% for pump and 20% for fan.
Though i still cant get the flow meter working right. Not sure why...

Ace0751
Fire Hydrant Gunner
Fire Hydrant Gunner
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby Ace0751 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:47 pm

Having a loop like that will make the flow a lot more slow. The 19ft of head pressure only means if their are no restrictions, but with that loop which looks like 15ft but now your adding the cpu block and the 2 gpu blocks which will slow down the flow and also that adapter for the connection for the GPU loop. So adding all of that into the equation you are putting a little more stress on that 450 pump which means its making it harder for the flow to come back to the radiator and res.

Using copper piping has its ups and down, yes its a nice conductor but the problem is you won't be able to take the loop apart that easily not like the plastic tubing that's why not a lot of people go with the copper loops. That ERM can handle a short loop with no problems whats so ever if you don't believe me send a message to Izerous or maybe he'll say something on here. He has a 9x120 in a short loop and is getting the same temps maybe even lower.

If you overclock it in that current state you will see the temps go up a lot higher than what you want them to be. I am only saying this is because with almost 5 years to my belt and having dealt with different setups maybe the advice I say might actually work. Temps do play a factor not going to argue their but it all comes down to the setup of the persons PC. On a hot day my 6990 will go as high as 48c playing a intense graphic game in other words Metro or crysis. CPU on the other hand is a little high going up to 50c and both of these components are on short loops. Cool days they go down a lot so temp does play a roll. You don't have to setup the loop with my opinion, their are so many other possibilities its up to you what you want to decide on.

Your going to have heat no matter what you do its all comes down to how well the flow and how well you have the radiators placed.
GIGABYTE X58-UD7 Mobo Rev. 2
Intel i7 950 3.25Ghz
Corsair DOMINATOR GT 12GB 2000mhz DDR3
MSI Radeon 290X
Danger Den Customized Case

Izerous
Rain Maker
Rain Maker
Posts: 1185
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:34 am
Location: Edmonton, Canada

Re: EXOS LT - Too small?

Postby Izerous » Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:36 pm

Been a long day so I apologize in advance is this doesn't make 100% sense take a 3 day weekend away from the office and first day back today was exceptionally long. I read over this a couple times but somethings might still not come across correctly.

I understand what your thinking with the long tube runs and having the extra fluid in the system however in experience with not just myself but with my friends who have done custom mineral oil submerged machines and other odd ball constructions having 0.5L vs having 4L doesn't really change your peak temperatures it only changes how short/long your heating cycles are. More heated fluid when you reach your maximum thresholds means it takes longer to cool down.

There used to be a product very similar to Alphacool Cape Cora in design however it was an absolute strait through design with no bends in it what so ever. A few of those older strait through passive radiators spaced out in those long tubing runs and you would probably then see the advantage of the long tubing runs even more so than converting to copper pipe. Side note I have done plumber with pex and copper, and I HATE dealing with copper pipping and would never have the patience to set something up like that for my computer making it impossible to move it around.

Besides the longer heating/cooling cycles your going to experience resistance from the tubing just due to the sheer volume. Even 1 ft of tubing has some resistance balanced or not. That also brings me to your balance, while yes the rise vs drop is balanced it is not balanced in the same way say a escalator is where the motor pushes and pulls the steps at the same time, the weight going up is also the weight going down because there is no disconnect in the cycle. However with cooling loops that have a res there is one side effect the res acts as a break meaning the pump only pushes it doesn't really pull since it is only pulling from the res not from the loop. There isn't much difference between res > pump > 20ft tubing > return compared to say res > pump > 20ft tubing > sink at least as far as the workload the pump goes through and the general flow rate. pump > 20ft tubing > pump however is a different story.


All of that being said however I'm going to finish off with one last note. you would most likely see beneficial results by swapping your installed drawers and computer cubbys then shortening your tubing length, however if your happy with the current performance does it really matter? I could install the 3x Triebwerk TK-123 fans (~215.5CFM @ 65dB) I still have laying around and probably see a smaller temperature delta between the loop and ambient room temperatures but I'm happy (very happy) with my current temperatures when only using the low speed low noise noctua fans (~55CFM @22.4dB) i currently have installed. And I'm confident that when I finally install the second 6990 (was going to have it installed by now but issues around the house come first) that I'll still be happy with my temperatures, if not it is a great excuse to give my wife to buy another HX-1080 and sandwich them together :D .
Corsair 800D
2xPMP-450S > Amd FX8370 > Asus CH4-EX > AMD 6990 > AMD 6990 > 2x1080 rads > return
32GB Ram


Return to “Water Cooling Systems & Kits”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest