Discolored Tubing

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Broadsword
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Discolored Tubing

Postby Broadsword » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:54 am

I have been running a system on everything koolance (tubing, fittings, radiators, coolant... everything)
Why is my Koolance tubing becoming discolored (brown) and not remaining clear. It looks like copper color and cannot be removed. The used coolant is still crystal blue and very clean. Just the pipes are copper colored now.

It is concerning and does not look good at all.

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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Ace0751 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:43 am

Sounds like the liquid is hitting some type of copper. Try flushing everything out and see if that resolves the problem. Have to troubleshoot first before making any conclusions.
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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Broadsword » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:07 pm

Ace0751 what are you talking about - Troubleshoot first before making conclusions?
In case you cannot read.
The system is stripped - The USED coolant is clear and clean BUT the tubing is discolored a copper color. every part has been flushed twice and coolant remains crystal clear.

The entire loop is/was koolance (radiators, fittings, tubing and coolant) and all nickel, so if it is hitting copper it is in the Koolance Kit and would then be a Koolance part that is deteriorating.

I am getting no response from Koolance Tech.

Will post on other forums with pics and see what feedback on cause might be.

Will have a third party (mentor) inspect the parts tomorrow.

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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Ace0751 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:45 pm

Where do you say in your first post it was stripped all you said is the tubing is discolored and the coolant is clear. And it takes at least a day for tech support to contact back. Probably the person who made the rad did not seal it well enough causing some copper to flow into the coolant and stick on the tubing.
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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Broadsword » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:13 am

When I saw the color of the tubing I became concerned and drained the liquid coolant. :roll: When I saw that the liquid coolant was still crystal clear, and the coloring was definitely internal to the tubing I removed a section of tubing and tried to clean it (identify what it was). :?: The color cannot be removed from the tubing nand the tubing now, instead of being clear transparent, is copper (bronze) colored and semi-transparent. :!:

My third party has now also just pointed out that there are two independant loops each running seperately off a pump each, and both loops tubing are the same copper (bronze) color now. :cry: Now I am very concerned :? 2 loops, 2 rad setups, 1 through the 370 cpu block and the other through Mobo full cover and GPU blocks and all nickel koolance kit and koolance pumps/res combos, Koolance tubing and Koolance coolant and tubing changes color and goes retro... seriously I am concerned. :shock:

All parts, including the tubing were purchased directly from Koolance around Christmas 2010.

I need to know what has gone wrong here :?: :!: - what has failed/deteriorated/caused the tubing to so dramatically change color in 12 months. :?: :roll:

And I emailed Koolance Tech the day before posting on the forum. I have yet to receive a response. :D

Ideas?

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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Broadsword » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:27 am

A Pic of the Discolored / Stained Tubing :cry: :x[attachment=0]Discolored_Stained_Koolance_ Tubing.png[/attachment]
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Discolored_Stained_Koolance_ Tubing.png
Discolored Stained Koolance Tubing from a full Koolance System
(208.85 KiB) Not downloaded yet

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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Broadsword » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:32 pm

I am most astonished and disappointed by the Glib responses I have received from Koolance Technical regarding this issue.

Clearly they have Zero interest in a consumers problem that may be resulting from a defective Koolance product - they came back with a list that included Flux, Corrosion, Biological Growth, Sunlight, Liquid Additives, Heat, Red UV Liquid (I used Blue), and Foreign Liquids. Prior to this they said it was only ever seen on tubing used by a heavy smoker - What? Inside the tubing? (and nobody smokes in here and I do not smoke)

LOOK at the PIC I posted - The tubing is internally discolored and I cannot remove the discoloring. The blocks are clean (dismantled the CPU-370), the connectores are all clean, and the removed Koolance Blue coolant (which I have saved) is clean and Blue like it was when it went in 9 or 10 months before it was removed.

Note where the tubing went over the connector it is still clear and clean - all the tubing is like this.

Two other (older) liquid Cooled Systems in the same room are good and appear clean...
There is only Koolance Nickle fittings and blocks on this system and the Koolance radiators.
Only Koolance Blue Coolant was used (NO additives, silver or anything else).
The pumps were RES/Pump RP-1000s and they were on auto shutdown at 55C (There never was a shutdown due to heat) (What kind of heat would be needed to discolor the inside of tubing like this - Koolance Tech refuses to answer this question. But surely it is not like 54C or maybe 57C - I think the pump auto shutdown kicks in at 55 +3 if I recall correctly)
There is no sunlight in the room where the PCs are - and it would also hurt the tubing around the connectors (?) and the damage is internal to the tubing (?)
There is no evidence of Biological Growth in any part of the system (all is actually clean, including the removed coolant) only the tubing is discolored internally and it cannot be removed.

I am hugely disappointed by the slick, pat, uninformative, and totally unhelpful answers and support I have received from Koolance. The best one being - "Flush the system and replace the tubing and coolant" Wow!

Tomorrow morning I am scheduled to vist a Testing Laboratory (kind of industrial, petrochem, lab) who have undertaken to test the stuff for me - it is going to cost me a wack and they also believe that some of the testing will be destructive (My Radiators).

Today my task is to unpack and photograph all the parts and tubing that I stored in brown paper bags when I dismantled the system.

I really want to know what has caused this - Koolance looks to blame Flux (because I said that I cannot vouch that the entire system was flushed before use - I always flush the radiators with distilled water before fitting) and I cannot believe that Flux can cause the tubing to become uniformly discolored throught the entire system from a little flux - guess the Lab will ID that.

Anybody with any ideas on the cause please let me know - I firmly believe it is not because of Flux, Heat, Biological growth, Cross metal contimination (unless copper and nickle are chemically reactive now), sunlight or due red UV Liquid. No additives, silver coils PT Nuke or other foreign inhibitors or foreign liquids have been used. It is definitely not due heavy smoking, and the system in its 9/10 months of running never needed additional coolant and was never opened - no coolant loss was ever visible)

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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Izerous » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:47 am

I have been using Koolance products since about the summer of 2003 and have never seen discoloration this severe. I have seen discoloration with my builds but only when I start messing around with non-Koolance tubing/fluids.

Their response was partly correct as there are a bunch of different things that can cause the tubing to discolor and based strictly on pictures they can really only make guesses based on prior experiences.

Different things that have cause my tubing to discolor over the years.
-I bought some tubing from an oilfield supply house, the fluid XP coolant I was messing around with at the time combined with that tubing was a bad idea.
-I bought some UV tubing from a local pc modding shop that closed out more than a few years ago. They were at Fragapalooza and I knew through friends quite a few of them. The UV tubing I bought from them discolored horribly. Had a UV light on it for 2 months pretty much strait and it was done and looked gross. On occasion I have gotten a slight white residue since moving to Feser 1 fluids however it has always flushed right out. Even with the above the discoloration was never as severe as your pictures are, and with exception to the UV tubing. I took apart and dissembled a ~5 year old Koolance rig that was never flushed or even had a coolant change and besides the disgusting amount of cat hair in the radiators (I'm allergic to cats even) was spotless after a quick distilled water flush.

Did you try physically scraping the inside of the tubing with a q-tip or anything else.

I can't really add anything further that would even be remotely constructive. Besides asking when do the lab techs expect to have results for you. I'm extremely curious what they have to say and would appreciate if you would be able to send me a copy of the results, and I know if you do send a copy as well to Koolance that they will review it.
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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Broadsword » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:11 am

I tried buds first. then a scourer. Then I cut a small piece apart and tried a knife to scrape it. Clearly the discoloration is internal to the tubing and it cannot be removed. It appears to be part of the tube itself now.

The stangest part is - where the tubing fitted over connectors it has remained clear (Transparent) and clean. The rest of the system parts (Blocks, connectors, etc) are all clear and clean.

I have only used Koolance Tubing and I only have Koolance tubing in my stock.

I made a huge mistake a few years ago and bought a Gigabyte Mercury Case with in-built cooling IT WAS MY FIRST WATER COOLING. I got hooked on Liquid Cooling and really enjoy building the systems and setting them up. Within a couple of months I was looking at what was out there. After many months and reading all the huge contaversy about Koolance products back then I happened on some Koolance stuff at a friends place and soon I spent a wack on Koolance - it is quality stuff - and have been with Koolance ever since. As soon as I got my kit I stripped the Mecury case and played - That system is still running today and beside cleaning filters and fans it is spotless and clean.

I have only ever bought Koolance myself, although others I have helped build have bought other stuff and some of it is also good stuff (In january I was given 2 EK Memory cooling blocks as gift - they are the first Other I have ever owned) and I am about to put them into a new build. Not neccesary but they will look good I think.

I have not really done much - built a few for myself and also for a few friends and helped others build. Mostly They go with Koolance first and then off on their own they break, flood, burn and cry.

The discoloring is internal to the tube and cannot be scrapped away, boiled away or wiped away. Neith can a multitude of detergents remove it. WHAT MUST BE NOTED is that the system blocks and connectors and radiators all appeared to be spotlessly clean and in good shape when dismantled - It is just the tubes that are not.

ANOTHER STRANGE THING IS - where the tubing fitted over connectors etc. it is still as clear (transparent) as it was the day it went on... ???? Only where the UV Blue liguid flowed is discolored. Also the system had no UV lights in it.

I got really pissed by the absolute palm-off by Koolance Tech especially the first response - change the liquid as soon as you see color change. Heck I went into emergency shutdown :-) All I wanted was some supportive direction or pointers and I got zip. A mountain of it could be, but never seen in Koolance products - that may be - all I want to know is what went wrong here or find out what is going on.

Hope the Lab comes up with something - but I get a lot of mouth around here and little action on just about every front - but lets see.

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Re: Discolored Tubing

Postby Fluxc0re » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:03 am

Is this only on one system ? This only happen with one batch of tube ? That batch of tube only in use on one system ?
Have you tryed boiling a small piece of the discolored tube .
BY the way , if it was Flux you could try to put hot vinigar in the rad and see what the color of the solution is when you pour it out . If it has all leeched out and is now part of your tube you wont see anything . If it hasent you will clean out the rad , a good idea now anyway . The thing is that now that all that crap is part of your tubeing ther may be nothing left in your rad BUT it is still a good idea to clean it out to eliminate crap in the rad as a problem .
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