A few questions and a hello

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mrinfinit3
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A few questions and a hello

Postby mrinfinit3 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:35 am

Wow the choices available today...
Silicone,Ceramic,Silver,Diamond,or liquid metal?

Well...My mobo's out for RMA so it's about that time to upgrade all my thermal interfaces, flush coolant, and add a carbon fiber layer to the mobo mount and inside of the case (just for fun) :lol:
Since I am a new poster to these forums (seasoned sli-zone (now nvidia) & overclockers.com member) I'll tell ya guys rite off the bat... I'm not one to go with the "norm" of things. lol
A little about me:
*I enjoy being the underdog in competitions...
*I was labeled as being "completely" disabled at the age of 26 due to a severe spinal injury caused by an unfortunate Razor scooter incident.(Don't ask lol) Was told I can never work again.....started my own Comp. R&D research firm/Company last July (09) which is thriving!!!!!(We're up to 5 distribution centers and 7 warehouses across the US and Canada and two offices in Brooklyn NY and Temecula Ca(Main))
***I got my Acct. Mngr working on the paperwork to partner up w/ ya Koolance!!! Looking forward to it!!!.***
*I am a benchmark whore :)

Now with that out of the way here's what I've got going:
CPU: Phenom II 965BE rev.C3 @ 4.2Ghz
MOBO: MSI NF980-G65 (980a 3x sli) (2900mhz NB/2600mhz HT)
RAM: 4Gb (2x2Gb) G-skill DDR-3 1600mhz 8-7-7-28
VGA1: GTX470 (for now)
VGA2: GTX470
VGA3: GTX470
HDD: 2x WD 500Gb Blacks (AALS) in RAID 0 + 750Gb Seagate Barracuda

Cooling:
CPU: Koolance 340
GPU: OEM (For now)--waiting on my gtx480s to come in
Chipset: Thermalrite
HDD: OEM
Pump: Thermaltake P500
RES: 2x Swiftech 350ml
Rad: Koolance EHX-1320(top mounted fans pushing into "pulling" 120mm top internally mounted case fans)
Tube: 1/2"OD-3/8"Id (10mm)
Case: In-Win Mealstrom
--6x Yate-Yun 120mm 80.5CFM (Side panel)
--2x 120mm Antec Tri-cool (top mount-intake)
--2x 120mm Thermaltake 70CFM (front intake)
--1x 120mm Antec tri-cool (rear exhaust)
--2x 40mm Delta 8cfm (rear exhaust)


Now I'm posting in the "MISC" forums due to several questions:

1. I've read that ceramic paste is best when used in conjunction w/ liquid cooling. We have recently tested IC 7/24K Diamond Paste with great results... however it solidifies almost instantly making swapping components difficult and messy. Our results w/ AS5 wern't much better than using the paste supplied by koolance. Has anyone tried or has heard anything about the Liquid Metal stuff?? http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... ts_id=4373 Will this react to the Coating used on the cpu-340? What do you use or would suggest w/ results?

2. Will the current generation of gpu blocks for the GTX400 series cards support the smaller die revisions coming in June?

3. Which liquid do you currently use and why?

4. MY R&D team is working on a new (green) chiller design.... What makes using plate exchanger more efficient than a solid chamber design? And what is the max Pressure the current Koolance plate exchanger can withstand without having to be concerned w/ leakage?

5. I've read the CPU-340 is ment for higher flow systems....Do you believe my current pump (considering my loop) is sufficient for optimal cooling?


Thank you for viewing and dealing w/ my noobish ques. and semi-rant lol

-Jake

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MUGEN
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Re: A few questions and a hello

Postby MUGEN » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:52 pm

1. Skinnee labs has a review of some thermal compounds http://skinneelabs.com/tim-v2.html I use MX-3 now as it's non conductive.
2. I doubt it as they usually do more than just shrinking the die so that would be a no.
3. I use the koolance blue high performance so I can see leaks easier than clear fluid but the color die could gunk up things like cpu blocks over time like i've seen Fesser one coolant do with copper blocks.
4. Both plate heat exchanger product pages show •Design Pressure: 10kgf/cm2 (140 PSIG)
5.Yes it's for high flow multi block set ups. I would upgrade to a Koolance pmp 450 or other brand and keep it at 4-5 and install it on a petra gel stuff to keep the noise/vibration down. I don't know if that 4x120 rad is enough for 3 GTX 480's but it should be fine for 3 GTX 470's.

Edit.
With 3 GPU's(gtx 285) you will be getting a cpu bottleneck unless you have a i7 at 3.8-4.0ghz depending on the resolution you are using. I'm sure the AMD cpu will be even worse.
ERM-2K3U + HX-1320
i7 965@ 3.6ghz CPU-360
MB-ASP6WR
GTX 295@ 670/1476/1188 VID-NX295
6 sets of No-spill QDCs
EK-DCP 4.0 Pump

mrinfinit3
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Re: A few questions and a hello

Postby mrinfinit3 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:14 pm

Thanks!
Good link :)

I guess I wont have to worry about the GF100 die shrink/rev. for a while...
After canceling the 32nm process, TSMC is now rumoured to skip 22nm and move straight to 20nm in H2 2012. Despite the poor 40nm process, TSMC is over-burdened with orders, including Nvidia and ATI GPUs. Initially, TSMC was expected to move to 32nm some time in 2010, thus enabling refresh/next-generation GPUs in late 201-. However, TSMC's move to cancel 32nm has meant the next advancement will be the 28nm, which is now rumoured to have slipped to H1 2011.

This has caused rescheduling of product releases for AMD especially, and perhaps Nvidia.

It is clear that neither AMD nor Nvidia are satisfied with the troubled 40nm process. AMD especially are unlikely to be content with the 32nm cancellation as the next-generation Northern Islands GPUs were set for release on 32nm in H2 2010. The current rumours suggest that AMD will have to do a half-generation Southern Islands in 40nm, before it can move to 28nm in 2011 for the "proper next-gen" N. Islands. For Nvidia, this is bad news as well, as the GF100 is desperately screaming for a die shrink - one which it cannot get before 2011. So, Nvidia may be forced to do a base layer respin at 40nm instead.

Now, it seems TSMC is canceling a process yet again, perhaps further disturbing release schedules. 22nm, which was last scheduled for late 2011, will not see the light of the day, as TSMC will move straight to 20nm. With 20nm due in late 2012, this would once again mean a massive gap between process transitions with no half-node. Effectively, this could kill the popular policy of die shrink refreshes we have seen in the past. 40nm was first introduced in 2009. 28nm comes next some time in 2011, and 20nm late 2012. Clearly, the gap is beyond one year - maybe even larger than a generational gap. So, GPU makers might have to change their approach to revisions on the same process rather than die shrink refreshes - as AMD are doing with Southern Islands. One could argue AMD started this approach with the HD 4000 series, where only one product (4770) got the die-shrink treatment.

Of course, with Globalfoundries starting bulk production of 28nm in 2011, it is likely that at least AMD will never get to order any significant quantity of 20nm TSMC wafers. If TSMC fails to deliver with 28nm it is likely Nvidia would also be considering jumping ship to Globalfoundries.


http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-tsm ... /8849.html

mrinfinit3
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Re: A few questions and a hello

Postby mrinfinit3 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:36 am

Looks like your rite... as far as "non-conductive" thermal interfaces are concerned the MX-3 is top notch... Though.. I would still like to try out that new liquid metal stuff as I hear it works wonders...Down side is (as you could imagine) it is highly conductive. With a mercury type texture and consistency; it would be very difficult to keep the stuff where you want it and from squeezing out the sides of the cpu during mounting.
I loved the performance of the IC Diamond paste...I used to be an avid AS5 user and a few years back they were top dog in the market.
I get asked the question: "Why re-invent the wheel?" very often when trying to explain our business purpose during investor meetings; there can be many answers to this, but in short "you cannot travel without progressive movement" as we've come to say. Imagine where we would be today if the ol' 386 never came to be.
Companies like Koolance spend tons and tons of $$$ each year to progress their cooling products to give real world results above the expectations of the products they are cooling.
People are creatures of habit; sadly. They like to stick with what they know.
If most of the general public knew the simplicity and benefits of liquid cooling it would be considered "mainstream" and overall prices would drop. Nearly 70% of my customer base assumes that liquid cooling is a death sentence ,so to speak, for a PC. Companies like AMD, for example, actually doubles their enterprise (server) equipment (cpu/gpu) warranties if it is being liquid cooled (installed by AMD certified systems engineers) <---which on a side note... the tests (28 of them) are a real PITA... not difficult... just tedious. ---

Now; play the "Reading Rainbow" song......
LOL
j/k

I'm ordering a small case (50 tubes) of MX-3 on Monday... just wanted to say thanks again for the input.


Now for Thermal pads for the GPU voltage regs.... any suggestions? I have heat sinks made up... but need a good thermal interface for those before I try to market them.



**EDIT**
Aye Koolance Guys... please, please, please, make a beauty back plate for the GTX400's to match your blocks.... think big acrylic logo across w/ blue back lighting and maybe a bit of alum trim. The "top" Back side of these cards are horrible to look at... and EVGA can't keep them in stock long enough for anyone to actually get one. Plus... who wants a black/red EVGA logo on one side of the gpu and a silver/blue water block... ???....

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Re: A few questions and a hello

Postby HELLFIRETOYZ » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:26 am

mrinfinit3 wrote:**EDIT**Aye Koolance Guys... please, please, please, make a beauty back plate for the GTX400's to match your blocks.... think big acrylic logo across w/ blue back lighting and maybe a bit of alum trim. The "top" Back side of these cards are horrible to look at... and EVGA can't keep them in stock long enough for anyone to actually get one. Plus... who wants a black/red EVGA logo on one side of the gpu and a silver/blue water block... ???....


The blocks are silver and not blue at all. The pictures Koolance has on the product page have blue LED's installed for show. You could easily install red ones :D
Hellfire - multi-mission, and multi-target precision-strike capability weapon system, "fire-and-forget!"

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i7 920 @ 4.21Ghz Blocked
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MUGEN
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Re: A few questions and a hello

Postby MUGEN » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:47 am

mrinfinit3 wrote:I'm ordering a small case (50 tubes) of MX-3 on Monday... just wanted to say thanks again for the input.


Now for Thermal pads for the GPU voltage regs.... any suggestions? I have heat sinks made up... but need a good thermal interface for those before I try to market them.



**EDIT**
Aye Koolance Guys... please, please, please, make a beauty back plate for the GTX400's to match your blocks.... think big acrylic logo across w/ blue back lighting and maybe a bit of alum trim. The "top" Back side of these cards are horrible to look at... and EVGA can't keep them in stock long enough for anyone to actually get one. Plus... who wants a black/red EVGA logo on one side of the gpu and a silver/blue water block... ???....

Before you order so many tubes of MX-3 I would consider that MX-3 is quite thick and requires high pressure blocks to spread the compound(CPU's). MX-2 is thinner and should be used for GPU(low pressure?)/chipset blocks and it's cheaper plus you can get it in larger tubes. I would try a tube of each to see what you think.

A thermal pad is all the same since I don't anyone is going to compare them. Koolance also sells thermal pads for GPU blocks which comes with 2 thicknesses.

I tried a $20 EVGA backplate on my GTX 295 and found it should be used on air cooling only because it's taking heat away from the GPU block and the thermal pad that came with it leaked grease all over the back of the card. If I kept all my case fans at high then this backplate would help cooling a little.
ERM-2K3U + HX-1320
i7 965@ 3.6ghz CPU-360
MB-ASP6WR
GTX 295@ 670/1476/1188 VID-NX295
6 sets of No-spill QDCs
EK-DCP 4.0 Pump


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