Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

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SniperNinja27
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Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby SniperNinja27 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:17 am

This is a rant, I apologize in advance. The primary question is how to run an internal resivour with dual loops, or if it will even work.

I currently have This as my rig:

CPU: Intel core i7 960 @ 4.0 Ghz (200x20) HT off, QPI at 7.2 GT/s
MOBO: Asus Rampage iii Formula (NB at 3.4Ghz)
GPU: Evga GTX 460 SC 1028mb gddr5 times 2 in SLI @ 850, 1720, 2020.
RAM: 12GB Kingston HyperX1600C9D3K3/12GX @ 1600 mhz 9-9-9-27-t1
PSU: Antec TPQ-1200
Sound: SoundBlaster Recon 3D
RAID 0: OCZ Vertex 3 LP 120Gb SSD SATAIII 6.0 Gbps x 2 for Windows 7 HP 64bit, Benchmarks, Hardware monitering programs, and BF3.
Hard Drive 1: Western Digital Blue Caviar 320gig SATA1 for steam games
Hard Drive 2: Seagate 500 gig SATA1 for storage

Koolance Water Cooling Parts:
2 x PM-400 pumps mounted to...
RP-402x2 Dual Bay Resivour
3x120mm 30fpi Radiator - 3 x 120mm koolance hp fans
1x120mm 30fpi Radiator - 1 x 120mm koolance hp fan
TMS-200 Control Board
TMS-200 Expansion Board
CPU-370 Rev1.1 Cpu block
MB-ASR3F Full coverage Motherboard block
2x VIDNX460 Full coverage Graphics card block

I have recently purchased a Koolance HX-240HL from another site as koolance no longer carries these. My plans are to add it into the loop to lower the temps as far as possible coming off the GPU's. (I'm running one large loop in this order: Cpu->120HX->MOBO->GPU1->GPU2->240HL->360HX->pump 2/res2->pump1/res1->repeat.) I know this is going to cause alot of ristrictive flow as right now I have to push my voltage up above 11.0v in TMS inorder to get a nice flow going where my rpm's actually start to respond to voltage commands. This I noticed has increased as I have expaned the Cooling Loop. Requiring the second pump to help create a push pull effect.

My future Idea is to mount an internal res that will allow me to split the loops up, and bleed into the interal res at the same time, therefore bleeding the lines before I run both back to its respective loop.

The limitations I face with my case are the mounting points of the rad's. As of now I have the 1x120 mounted to the normal rear cpu exhaust with the fan sammiched (suddenly hungry?) between the case and the rad. The 3x120 is mounted to the top of the case with the 1/4" fittings towards the front of the case facing down. same deal with the fans and food. So obviously the new 240 will be mounted to the bottom of the case, internally with fans on top in pull. I will have to bust out the dremel. *shrugs* the case was only $120.00 ;)

That being the limit of where I can mount the rads (as the 240's online specs state it is 14.25 inches long and 2.25 tall! This thing is going to be a MONSTER, unless someone posted inaccurate specs??)

Back to the internal res idea. Sticking to my water cooling montra of only using Koolance parts for my water, The Res would be 6 parts mounted in a vertical fashion.

80mm diameter cylinder parts including: regular base, top, adjustable bracket, Reservoir Coupler with Fitting Sockets - Male, and two res bodies, a 80mmx120mm, and 80mmx80mm with the lengthlier of the two being on the bottom and the res coupler between it and the 80mmx80mm res body.

I'm hoping, due to the coolant entering into the res horizontally, will bleed both loops into one tank. The outputs would be on the bottom base and one on the side of the base, allowing minimal air to enter back into the 2 loops.

What i'm trying to decide is Rad choice for each loop. I can do all sorts of combinations and still allow the loops to look clean and not overly...tubed, for lack of a better word.

IF I stick with what will be the current setup, I feel placing the res at the end of the video cards, before the 240, and 360 it will be far too much restriction for the pumps to pull the water through the whole loop. I don't want to get another pump, So that is why i wanted to split the loops. I know that the water temps will be the same or will level out depending on how I run the loop.

The best setup I can think to run would be this:
loop 1: Cpu - mobo - internal res - pump 1/res 1 - 360 rad - 120 rad - repeat
loop 2:Gpu1 - Gpu2 - internal res - 240 rad - pump 2 / res 2 - repeat
I would use the plug provided with my hard drive bay res so that the two pumps where seperate.

I would have to rotate my 360 rad so that the fittings were towards the rear of the case. This would cause a thermal stacking, I think, but i'm not sure if the mixing effect of the internal res would just cancel that out. The thinking is that the two rads in the cpu loop would be more for keeping the cpu and mobo as cool as possible, as the Gpu's can handle quite a bit of heat without negative effects. (side note: since instillation of the gpu water blocks on both gtx460's I have yet to see the temps run over 62 C at full load.) Because it would be like having a quad rad cooling the two blocks it would give me lower temps on the cpu and mobo allowing the coolant to cool the gpu loops coolant when they mix in the res. The worry is over loading the thermal handling of the 240 Rad. Though I plan to mount 4 x 120mm koolance 109cfm fans on them. They are what I currently am running on the rads and 2 hd mounts and they work great!


The alternate idea I had was this:
loop 1: Cpu - mobo - internal res - 240 rad - pump 1/res 1 - 120 rad - repeat
loop 2:Gpu1 - Gpu2 - internal res - pump 2 / res 2 - 360 rad - repeat
same deal with the bay tank plug.
This would give me the maximum thermal transfer of heat off the graphics cards to the very top of the case, the motherboard doesn't seem to get much hotter than 45 C (nb and sb temps reported by hdmoniter) under full load.
This would also allow an equal split in radiator cooling abilities.


Sorry for the long rant, but as I've learned over the past 2 years of building this rig to what it is now, watercooling is like...well its like turning a car...into a world rally car. It's complex.

Thanks Again and please leave any feed back you think would help finalize this build.
ASUS Rampage iii Formula
Intel core i7 960
2x EVGA GTX460 SC 1GB EE
12GB Kingston ddr3
Antec TPQ-1200
Xigmatek Elysium
Koolance:
CPU-370
MB-ASR3F
VID-NX460 x 2
RP-402x2
PMP-400 x 2
HX-CU1020V
HX-CU420V
TMS-200 & TMS-EB200
6 x FAN-12025HBK

Ace0751
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Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby Ace0751 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:06 pm

OK before going crazy with this project what kind of case doyou have? I actually have a dual loop setup and its nothing like what your saying lol so I think your thinking about this a little too much. After reading this story its quite easy to setup a 2 loop setup just have to know what your case can handle and how your going to set the loops up. If you don't have an idea of how its going to look, it will get very complicated and that's where mistakes are made. OK now down to the meat of what might need to be done.

First off with the loops you always need a res and pump at the start of the loop, you don't need it but it makes the process a lot more easier so my suggestion is put the res and pump in the beginning of the loop. As for adding another res to the loops you will have to add another pump to the mix so you have a constant flow in the loop and don't add too much liquid and that will result in a overflow. That's the problem of adding a extra res in the loop cause you will have to deal with all that hassle plus it will just clutter the case even more depending on what you have. Lets say you don't go with the extra res and pump on the loops it can be something like this:

Loop1 - 402x2>CPU>NB>240rad>402x2
Loop2 - 402x2>GPU>GPU>360rad>402x2

Something like this will cause a lot less restriction and the tubing will not be everywhere :) . Just remember liquid cooling will only go so far before it becomes unnecessary to add things to the loop. Now if you want to go overboard with the cooling and want to see how low you can get your temps here is an alternate loop idea:

Loop1 - 402x2>CPU>NB>240rad>pump/res>120rad>402x2
Loop2 - 402x2>GPU>GPU>360rad>pump/res>Any radiator>402x2

Now with this setup, the liquid enter the radiators and then return to the 402. That will result in the liquid being a lot cooler next time it hits the blocks, the only downside to this its going to take up a lot of room in your case depending on what you have. If you want an idea of how to set something up look at this thread I created for my recent project I just completed.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3081&p=11267#p11267

Don't mind the case and other things just wanted to show you an example of what a dual loop setup can be and of course this is without the extra res/pump. I have an extra internal and external system that I will be selling to so if you or anyone else wants to get into water cooling and doesn't want to pay a lot for a system I can sell one for a decent price. I hope this helps out a bit for your next build and if you have any questions don't be afraid to ask.
GIGABYTE X58-UD7 Mobo Rev. 2
Intel i7 950 3.25Ghz
Corsair DOMINATOR GT 12GB 2000mhz DDR3
MSI Radeon 290X
Danger Den Customized Case

SniperNinja27
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Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby SniperNinja27 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:42 am

Thank you for your opinions.

The Case is a Xigmatek Elysium, so I have a good bit of room to play with.

The Idea behind the interal res was to have more fluid in both loops as this causes the entire system to take longer to heat up to its balanced room temp. I understand what your are saying behind restriction though. The pumps used in this case are not the 450's but They do produce quite a bit of preasure when ran in series as I have them now. Even at idle both pumps combined rpm is 4500rpm. Which is well over the 1 gallon per minute ideal flow rate.

Overflow I'm not worried about because this is a sealed system, I regularly travel without draining the system. I've only encountered leaks a handful of times, and that was due to not double checking all my fittings after doing a rebuild.

I think I am going to run your second idea, though slightly different as I do not have the internal res yet and probably will hold off for a while on adding it to the system. I may just use two smaller diameter res' side by side to accomplish the same thing but keep the loops seperate.

The two loops (for now) will be:
402x2>cpu>120rad>moboblock>240rad>402x2
402x2>gpu1>gpu2>360rad>402x2
I need addition fittings so I might just run the first loop with the 240rad for now. By next week I will have the additional fittings to reinclude the 120rad in the first loop.
I will keep the loops entirely seperate and see what thermal results I get on the good ole' tms-200+EB and adjust accordingly from there. I also hope to be picking up flow meters for both loops so i will be able to give an acturate flow rate along with temps and so on.

Thanks again for your response.
ASUS Rampage iii Formula
Intel core i7 960
2x EVGA GTX460 SC 1GB EE
12GB Kingston ddr3
Antec TPQ-1200
Xigmatek Elysium
Koolance:
CPU-370
MB-ASR3F
VID-NX460 x 2
RP-402x2
PMP-400 x 2
HX-CU1020V
HX-CU420V
TMS-200 & TMS-EB200
6 x FAN-12025HBK

SniperNinja27
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Posts: 16
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Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby SniperNinja27 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:55 am

Here are images for you. I apologize for blurry or distorted images as this is a camera phone.
IMAG0454.jpg
Top line is in, bottom line with t fitting drain is output for flow
(183.66 KiB) Not downloaded yet
ASUS Rampage iii Formula
Intel core i7 960
2x EVGA GTX460 SC 1GB EE
12GB Kingston ddr3
Antec TPQ-1200
Xigmatek Elysium
Koolance:
CPU-370
MB-ASR3F
VID-NX460 x 2
RP-402x2
PMP-400 x 2
HX-CU1020V
HX-CU420V
TMS-200 & TMS-EB200
6 x FAN-12025HBK

SniperNinja27
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Posts: 16
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Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby SniperNinja27 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:58 am

IMAG0455.jpg
Closer view of where I would split the loops, I would run straight from the mobo block to the 240, and the two gpus would get the 360
(187.08 KiB) Not downloaded yet
ASUS Rampage iii Formula
Intel core i7 960
2x EVGA GTX460 SC 1GB EE
12GB Kingston ddr3
Antec TPQ-1200
Xigmatek Elysium
Koolance:
CPU-370
MB-ASR3F
VID-NX460 x 2
RP-402x2
PMP-400 x 2
HX-CU1020V
HX-CU420V
TMS-200 & TMS-EB200
6 x FAN-12025HBK

Izerous
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Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby Izerous » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:33 am

Ace covered most of what I was going to say, however I wanted to note that a res doesn't act as a cooling function and having 2 inline breaks your flow.

Unless you have a res with heat sinks on it, the only function is serves is for system maintenance, and bleeding.
Corsair 800D
2xPMP-450S > Amd FX8370 > Asus CH4-EX > AMD 6990 > AMD 6990 > 2x1080 rads > return
32GB Ram

SniperNinja27
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Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby SniperNinja27 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:49 am

gotcha. i just figured if i stacked the 360rad and the 120rad in the cpu/mobo loop, and had it mixed with the gpu loop it could help the 240rad cool the gpu loop. but i'll just stick to two seperate loops. The idea was mainly for bleeding, as the 402x2 is a bit of a headache to bleed.
ASUS Rampage iii Formula
Intel core i7 960
2x EVGA GTX460 SC 1GB EE
12GB Kingston ddr3
Antec TPQ-1200
Xigmatek Elysium
Koolance:
CPU-370
MB-ASR3F
VID-NX460 x 2
RP-402x2
PMP-400 x 2
HX-CU1020V
HX-CU420V
TMS-200 & TMS-EB200
6 x FAN-12025HBK

SniperNinja27
Water Pistol Grunt
Water Pistol Grunt
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:47 am
Contact:

Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby SniperNinja27 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:51 am

OK before going crazy with this project
too late. the price tag on the watercooling parts is in upwards of $1500 bucks. without shipping
ASUS Rampage iii Formula
Intel core i7 960
2x EVGA GTX460 SC 1GB EE
12GB Kingston ddr3
Antec TPQ-1200
Xigmatek Elysium
Koolance:
CPU-370
MB-ASR3F
VID-NX460 x 2
RP-402x2
PMP-400 x 2
HX-CU1020V
HX-CU420V
TMS-200 & TMS-EB200
6 x FAN-12025HBK

Izerous
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Posts: 1183
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:34 am
Location: Edmonton, Canada
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Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby Izerous » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:37 am

While I have not bled the 402x2 I have bled the 452x2 (rev 1.3?) and it isn't as bad as some made it out to be. Really only needed to tilt the case a couple times when first bleeding after that took care of itself once the loop was full.
Corsair 800D
2xPMP-450S > Amd FX8370 > Asus CH4-EX > AMD 6990 > AMD 6990 > 2x1080 rads > return
32GB Ram

SniperNinja27
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Posts: 16
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Re: Water cooling dual loop idea. Thoughts welcome

Postby SniperNinja27 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:15 pm

Just a quick post before I start draining things and tearing down the case so I can dremel out a hole for the new dual rad to breathe, I recieved the HL240 today and I'm happy to say that the specs posted where incorrect or I read them wrong. The demensions I have after using a measuring tape on the dual rad is 11.3/4" long (from 1/4" fitting to back end of Radiator) x 4.7/8" wide x 1.3/4" tall. It is however 3/4" taller than the normal 30fpi rad's that I have. Wish me luck! Hopefully will be back on by tommorrow evening, I need to get a plunge-cut addapter for my dremel and some metal routing bits once I complete the break down.
ASUS Rampage iii Formula
Intel core i7 960
2x EVGA GTX460 SC 1GB EE
12GB Kingston ddr3
Antec TPQ-1200
Xigmatek Elysium
Koolance:
CPU-370
MB-ASR3F
VID-NX460 x 2
RP-402x2
PMP-400 x 2
HX-CU1020V
HX-CU420V
TMS-200 & TMS-EB200
6 x FAN-12025HBK


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